The Art & Science of Sales - Living and Investing with Jonathan Broekman
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Welcome to "Living and Investing with Jonathan". I recently had the pleasure of interviewing Tony Cross, CEO of Growth Matters International, who specialise in helping companies with their sales. We discussed the art and science of sales; and the very real need to bridge the gap between sales training and execution.
Question - Jonathan Broekman
Tony, we know your company helps organisations improve sales performance, leadership and strategy - but how exactly do you do that?
Answer - Tony Cross
Put simply, we help teams transform their sales approach from theory into practice. Far too often, companies run training sessions, invest in CRM systems and then have to repeat the same process because they haven't created the right execution habits. We specialise in installing those disciplined routines so the knowledge sticks and sales teams thrive, day in and day out.
Question - Jonathan Broekman
That's an interesting angle, Tony. People tend to think the training and tech alone will solve everything. But you're saying the real challenge is making the lessons permanent so they become second nature?
Answer - Tony Cross
Exactly, Jonathan. It's one thing to attend a workshop and feel inspired. It's another to apply that learning consistently in the field. That's where habits, coaching and proper guidance come in. When teams learn to execute effectively and adapt their approach to real-world conditions, their success rates climb.
Question - Jonathan Broekman
That certainly makes sense. But, as I'm sure you'll agree, the market's changed drastically over the past decades. Buyers aren't just waiting for a product pitch - they have access to tons of information online - they're informed, they've done their research, and they often know as much as the salesperson about what they need. Has this shift influenced the way you train people?
Answer - Tony Cross
Absolutely! In the past, we sold products and, if they worked, the buyer was satisfied. Later, it became about offering solutions to business problems. Now, people expect real outcomes: lower costs, reduced risk, a better lifestyle, higher market share, whatever matters most to them. They're arriving armed with details and insights, and they're looking for salespeople who can take them to the next step, not waste time with boilerplate questions.
That must require a far more nuanced approach. Some customers want to open the bonnet and learn the engine's details, while others couldn't care less. So how do you teach sales teams to tune into each individual's priorities?
By understanding that there isn't a "one-size-fits-all" script. Salespeople need to ask relevant questions and truly listen. If a customer loves technical details, don't bore them with lifestyle features. If another client wants a simple, painless solution, don't overwhelm them with specs. The best sales professionals adapt to the buyer's world. That's how they build trust and credibility.
Question - Jonathan Broekman
I've heard you say that introverts can be great salespeople. Is it more about personality or about having both the 'art' and the 'science' of selling?
Answer - Tony Cross
It's definitely a blend. Sure, charismatic extroverts can charm a room, but introverts can excel at listening, understanding nuances and building genuine rapport. Good salespeople combine the art of communication and empathy with a scientific discipline - making that extra call, following up consistently, using data to guide their approach. Without structure and process, even the most charming personality won't reach its full potential.
Question - Jonathan Broekman
Let's talk about the role of the sales manager. Where do they fit into all this?
Answer - Tony Cross
Sales managers are crucial. They're often overlooked when it comes to training, yet they have the power to sustain all these habits we're talking about. A great manager doesn't just chase their own deals - they coach their team, observe from the sidelines, provide feedback and ensure the right behaviours take root. It's not about barking orders from a spreadsheet. It's about getting out in the field, understanding opportunities and offering hands-on guidance.
Question - Jonathan Broekman
What about marketing's role? Sales teams often blame marketing for poor leads, while marketing claims they're delivering plenty of prospects. How do you help bridge that gap?
Answer - Tony Cross
It starts with alignment. Sales and marketing need to define what a good lead looks like - and agree on the message they're sending to the marketplace. If a customer sees one thing on the website and hears something else from the salesperson, confusion sets in. When sales and marketing operate in sync, they help each other produce results instead of pointing fingers.
Question - Jonathan Broekman
You've mentioned CRM systems - those often get a bad rap. Where do they typically fail?
Answer - Tony Cross
Often, the failure isn't in the tool itself but in how it's used. A CRM should be hired to do a clear job: guide the sales process, track opportunities and make sure nothing slips through the cracks. Without clear definitions and expectations, it becomes a burden - just admin for admin's sake. We teach managers to set non-negotiable standards so the CRM helps teams progress deals and spot trends, rather than feeling like a stick to beat them with.
Question - Jonathan Broekman
Let's shift to the customer's point of view. Buyers come with expectations - so how do you ensure their experience feels positive?
Answer - Tony Cross
It's simple: if the experience meets or exceeds their expectations, they walk away feeling valued; and value creates loyalty. Fall short - and they'll shop around, even if it costs more. As alluded to earlier, the key is to step into their shoes. Understand what they're expecting - what matters to them - and make sure you deliver or better yet, go one step further. Over time, those exceptional moments build trust and long-term relationships.
Question - Jonathan Broekman
So sales teams should focus on the buyer's reality rather than their own scripts or quotas?
Answer - Tony Cross
Exactly. Sales representatives represent the company's interests, but they also represent the customer inside the organisation. If they genuinely understand what the customer needs, they'll get the deal done in a way that makes everyone happy. And if they don't have a solution right now, they should be honest - customers will remember the integrity and might return later.
Question - Jonathan Broekman
Any final words of wisdom for companies looking to improve their sales approach?
Answer - Tony Cross
Focus on three things: keep the customer front and centre, make coaching a continuous process and maintain consistency in habits. Don't aim for perfection overnight - just commit to moving steadily in the right direction. Over time, those good habits become your team's natural behaviour and your sales performance will reflect that.
Thanks, Tony. Your insights really help clarify how sales should evolve. I'm definitely taking notes for my own practice. It's been a pleasure having you on "Living and Investing with
Jonathan."
Likewise, Jonathan. Thanks for having me. I've enjoyed sharing these ideas, and I hope they help your viewers and readers find new ways to engage and succeed.
Should you have any further queries, or want to explore how Growth Matters may be able to assist your company, you can contact Tony at Growth Matters International at the Station, Parade on Kloof Office Park, 1 Parade Rd, Bedfordview 2007, Gauteng, or on +27 10 054 6498 or info@growthmattersintl.com.
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Author: Jonathan Broekman
